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Steve
Welcome to building brand gravity. I'm your host, Steve Halsey. I'm excited today to talk about the global state of confidence in business. According to the latest Paige Harris Poll research, only 26% of people globally are very confident that companies can make a positive impact on the issues that matter most. Even fewer, just 20%, say they see companies providing both action and context.
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Steve
With me today to discuss how we bridge the gap in confidence in business, why brand should care, and what chief communications officers should do about it are my friends of the pond, Elliot Mizrahi, VP, strategy and content for page, and Rob Yankovic, who is the managing director of Harris Poll. Gentlemen, welcome back to the show.
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Eliot
Thanks for having us.
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Rob
Great to be here, Steve.
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Steve
So so let's start with some of the top line findings from this year's global research. You guys put together, research that tracks 16 key issues across 14 global markets. You also interviewed 40 chief communications officers from around the world to really create a pretty comprehensive view of what publics are thinking, where business is at. I mean, Rob, maybe you can kick us off by helping us unpack what you found to be the top six issues the public expects business to act on in 2025.
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Rob
Thanks for the set up, Steve. Yeah. So when you when you go across 14 countries and those 16 issues, there are six pieces that really bubble up. We'll talk a little bit. I think, in, in a little bit about some of the differences by, by market. But there are six issues that kind of what we'll call essential.
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Rob
Right. It's a it's a blend of different things. So it's a pretty dynamic landscape. But the top three, around economic stability and growth, around job creation and workforce skills development, and corruption. Right. Corruption's a definitely an interesting one for conversation, especially since in a number of markets, it's actually number one. So the and the next three that fill out the whole kind of essentials gap are, an environmental issues research and technological innovation, and mental health issues.
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Rob
Right. Each. All six of those are seen as very important for leading companies to make an impact on, in aggregate, across all those markets. Majority of the population says that.
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Steve
So, Rob, when you guys put together that full list of, the 16 key issues, were you surprised in the top three, the top six?
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Rob
The one, the the one that's always I think drives a lot of intrigue is, is the one around corruption. So and right now I would just use that, especially in communications, corporate affairs parlance as a, as a very strong proxy for reputational risk. Right. So the word corruption can be everything from I think my fees are to high the this company is acting in a corrupt fashion to, this is a senator or a representative who's been indicted on 23 counts of malfeasance, intersecting with foreign actors and, accruing a lot of personal wealth.
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Rob
Right? So it's it's a very large spectrum. And for that reason, just as with reputational risk, sometimes there's a there's a 3% kernel of truth that gets turned into a much bigger story. So I think it's a it's a really important one. I think mental health is also really intriguing, primarily because it overindex is so heavily on, on younger generations, across the board.
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Steve
So, so, Elliot, when you when you think about what Rob was talking about in terms of reputational risk and just, just the broader set of, things that rose to the top, how does that match up with the one on one conversations you were having with CEOs around the globe and, and any different perspectives you got from those who may be based in the States versus elsewhere in the world.
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Eliot
Yeah. So, actually, just to back up a moment, the impetus for this study was Page's interest in having more of a presence at events like Davos. And so we partnered with Robin Harris to develop a piece of research that would underscore the role of the Co as a real business leader and would focus on some of the challenges that they're facing.
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Eliot
One of the main ones being how do we contend with this range of societal issues where the expectation of us in our organizations to address those, and what what's the impact of that? And I think for a lot of CSOs, you know, if you flash back, you know, four years ago, five years ago, a lot of these issues, particularly around Dei and ESG, they were really front and center and companies were really aggressive in their actions in pursuing those, policy politics, as it often does, you know, sort of moves over time.
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Eliot
And I think there were a couple of instances where companies, were, chastened for some of the action that they took because of some negative reaction, which caused some companies to think maybe a little bit more critically and judiciously about the issues that they ought to tackle. And so the idea behind this research was, let's shed some light on what types of issues should really matter to organizations and importantly, what action on those issues might produce in terms of confidence in business and confidence in their ability to have impact on those issues?
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Eliot
What I think is interesting, which was kind of the point of doing this globally, is that those answers are really different across geographies.
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Steve
Yeah, that'll be that'll be I want to get into that in a, in a little bit talking about what you're seeing across the globe. But Rob, I thought it was interesting you looked at the issues that, that in terms of importance and in terms of confidence. Can you can you talk a little bit about about what you found when you look at it through those two dimensions?
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Rob
Sure. I, I've actually one of the points I just wanted to build on what Elliot said, we made sure. And this is an it just makes sense that we have all the components of issues such as ESG. And I included, we just don't use the terms ESG or Dei. Nor would we suggest that anyone use those, right?
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Rob
I mean, again, unless you've you've been invested in that acronym for a very, very long time. And the acronym is kind of part of your culture. It's probably best to kind of focus in on the specific issues underlying it, right? Where again, there's I think there's a tremendous amount of work to be done, and there's very little reason why many companies should, should back away from a lot of the underpinning ideas.
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Rob
But we'll get to that. Right. So when you're, when you're looking at the, across all the, especially the, the six essentials, they're the one that's the standout in terms of highest confidence, although it's still pretty low is around R&D and innovation. Right. So that's the one that connects most easily and more most intuitively with with the with with the public.
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Rob
And that's where confidence is highest, although still reasonably low. Also just when we're, we're talking about confidence being low, we're also we're not saying that the negatives are high. It's just the ambivalence is high. Right. So like it's basically the a low, confidence in business indicates a lack of perspective, which again, in today's reality that's a big risk, right?
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Rob
Because it's you know, as you look at the overall geopolitical landscape, there's increasingly many more populist voices, populist leaders who can have might pick on companies as kind of the reason for why things are going well or not going so well. Right. So that's the the big piece around a lack of confidence is really a lack of definition.
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Rob
So again, high definition on research and technological innovation, lowest confidence on, on corruption. Right. So again, speaks to the the fact that we're not just talking about individual company actions. In many cases, it's that intersection with kind of politics, government, etc.. Right. And across, many, many governments. Right. You can see that like, especially in, like parliamentary, regimes, if you will, like very often when regime is in for a long time and then changes because of a corruption scandal.
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Rob
And that's kind of that's not like something that's happening now. That's like a decades long trend that you see pretty consistently.
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Steve
Yeah. That was that that was a fascinating one. And when we get into a little bit of slice of the data by, by generations, it's really interesting looking at that corruption viewpoint as well. So, so, Elliot, you know, as we get started in this conversation and we think about the importance and we think about the confidence, how does that start shaping as we go through this discussions, how Cos agency leaders, other senior comms professionals need to think about how do you start taking data like this, what you're hearing, in your organization and start thinking about how those come together.
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Eliot
Yeah. So my first thought on that question, actually, is an emphasis on what Rob just said about the choice not to talk about ESG and the I, you know, those are terms that are popular in the corporate vernacular, but are not the way that everyday people think about those issues. And I think that's one of the lessons for scholars is, you know, make that distinction.
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Eliot
Think about what type of initiatives, programs, decisions you need to make at the corporate level in order to fulfill your mission, your values, all that stuff. But then also, and I think part of what this research does is, meet consumers, meet stakeholders where they are on those issues, speak to them in terms that relate to, how that issue shows up in their life.
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Eliot
And so we deliberately chose not to focus on those terms. And we've actually done some separate research, not as part of the Harris poll. That looks at, what is the terminology that companies should be using when engaging on these issues? And, you know, terms like, you know, we're we're making choices that that allow us to be a responsible business, that is far less polarizing than using terms like ESG and Dei, which, in many respects, you know, they're acronyms without meaning, that have been given meaning by a variety of different political actors.
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Eliot
And so I think being aware of the political environment is a big part of it, but also understanding stakeholders and what their expectations of the business are is really important.
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Steve
Yeah, Elliot, that's really important when you when you ask people and kind of how you did in the research, when you're asking about gender equality or income, inequality or racial or minority, equality, there are different ways that you could set that framing up that most people generally are going to say, yes, I agree with. However, the acronyms really got politicized.
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Steve
And I think that's going to be another point to kind of put a pin in, to come back as to how do you communicate in a, hyper polarized environment, knowing when and where to, to engage. But I also thought, Rob, going back to just the sheer global nature of this, I thought it was fascinating looking at some of the regions that had extremely, high confidence vis-a-vis the other ones, like Saudi Arabia and India versus like, the UK, Japan and Italy and the United States and Canada and Mexico were kind of kind of middling.
00:11:03:10 - 00:11:16:07
Steve
So what what type of things did you think was interesting from, geographic standpoint? And what are some things that schools need to think about that?
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Rob
Sure. So you certainly do have some differences. So although overall confidence is relatively low, the US is actually very close to the average, just under the average. Right. But you did have some markets especially like well established markets such as the ones you name that, that are a lot lower on confidence. And you had a lot of, a lot of other markets, you could call them emerging, I think in a lot are now established.
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Rob
But like if you're looking at Saudi Arabia, UAE, India, Brazil for confidence was higher. Right now, I think the the there's a couple different things. So the first is when you look at some of the those let's call them emerging markets. Right. You still that the role of companies is can be very, very substantial where you see a very direct intersection between large scale infrastructure development and things like that, right, where you can make a very substantive, very noteworthy and very tangible impact on kind of the economy.
00:12:05:17 - 00:12:26:11
Rob
And in many cases, there's a closer intersection with, with government because of the size and nature of a lot of those projects. Right? So again, I don't I don't know if that's the saying that's the formula for success. It's more so saying that that is the reality on the ground right now in many of those markets, many of the kind of, established markets are also and if there's a lot more companies doing a lot more things.
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Rob
So it's harder to do to, for individual companies to, to break through. They're also noisy these days on, on, on many different fronts. But when you look across markets, there's also a difference in expectations, right? The, you know, the most consistent trend. And this one I think is pretty obvious when you play it out in terms of consumers lives, is around kind of economic growth.
00:12:45:12 - 00:13:13:14
Rob
Right. So like economic impact, economic growth are really good translation of that is also like prices and inflation. Right. So like the your economic narrative is fundamentally important across every market. But from there you have, you have quite a bit of like difference there. You know, there are some markets where we mentioned, you know, corruption is like the number one item, like in places like China and in the United Kingdom, that is the number one that, that consumers are saying they expect companies to make a big impact on, which is that's interesting.
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Rob
Right. You have other markets where where you have issues, such as, you know, negative impacts of AI and regulation of AI that are much higher that are into the into the essential set where, you know, there's that that's not the case. Right? So, again, AI is at play in certain markets like the UK is an example where, regulation of AI is a much higher expectation versus many other markets.
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Steve
Those are really fascinating points. Rob Elliot, any thoughts on that?
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Eliot
Yeah. So on this notion that the economic issues are the ones that that stakeholder seem to have the greatest expectations on, that's intuitive, right? Like the business of business is business. And so that's where the focus ought to be. But even on some of these other societal issues, the research that I referenced earlier, one of the things that we found was that, you know, connecting it to the interests of the business, to the profitability motive, those are things that make them seem more relevant to the business.
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Eliot
And where you get in trouble is where it seems like companies are virtual signaling or making decisions based on a set of moral values that are being imposed on others. Whereas in many cases, the truth is that they're doing that because there is an interest in the business in, in pursuing those issues. And so I think one of the lessons here is be thoughtful about the issues that you decide to engage on and think about them.
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Eliot
And think about communicating them in ways that relate to the success of the business.
00:14:38:21 - 00:15:05:02
Steve
Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. And I guess I throw this one out a little bit as a as a jump ball. Then, you know, Rob, you covered that. The top three issues most consistently across economic stability and growth, job creation and workforce skills development and corruption tended to be fairly, fairly consistent. But then some of the other, things that are being grappled on, by region change pretty wildly.
00:15:05:04 - 00:15:24:06
Steve
So how can how can a senior communicator use this kind of as a, as a blueprint to think about what are the things that I need to play up in, in different geographies? What are the things what part of my narratives need to be consistent globally and and so how do you how do you use those findings?
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Rob
I mean the of the top three, right. The first two are very proactive. Right. So job creation and economic impact are very proactive ones too. And I mean, I think those are important because sometimes people like think they're it's like Captain Obvious, but it actually isn't what you're leading with. And it's not even part of your overall frame.
00:15:41:20 - 00:15:57:22
Rob
Right. So I think it's a good reminder. The corruption one is more, as we talked about. It's more of like an indicator of risk. So it's like something you need to be prepared for and like it's really good for kind of like wild card question prep for your CEO. Right. And it's definitely a lot more on kind of rethinking materiality of risks.
00:15:58:00 - 00:16:21:03
Rob
But even some of the issues like environmental issues are quite consistent across most markets. But they they overindex in certain places, like environmental issues. Number two in Japan, number two in Mexico, number two in Brazil, but essential in the majority of the markets that we looked at, the racial minority equality also an essential issue in, in the US, versus not as much in and in many other markets.
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Rob
I think it's really, really important just to be judicious about those things. And again, like, I think one of the most interesting ones is mental health, where again, you see both a generational divide and you see a country divide, right? Where again, it's if you're there's many of these issues that if you just don't say anything, it's it's basically like a relevance kluge.
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Rob
Right. Like you're you're basically you're creating an impediment for, for people to be able to listen to you. So if you're if you're talking to a younger generation about how relevant your company is and why, why it's actually meaningful and important and, you know, especially if you're looking at career opportunities and you don't allude to things like mental health is just a huge mess, like you're just going to be off the radar, that kind of thing.
00:16:58:04 - 00:17:31:03
Steve
So, so let's, let's, let's shift a little bit and, let's talk about the generations in the workforce. So generally accepted we've got four generations in the workforce. Genji, millennials, Gen X, boomers. Depending upon your type of business, you may have an additional, generation coming in, working the counter at your store, things like that. I mean, Elliot, how how has the calculus changed in terms of just thinking how you need to communicate across generations internally within the organization?
00:17:31:05 - 00:17:38:17
Steve
Depending upon brand externally, what what what are some of the Broadlands things that, schools need to think about?
00:17:38:18 - 00:18:06:18
Eliot
You know, I am sure that there are all sorts of generational issues that are under consideration for external communication and how you engage those different audiences. But honestly, most of what I hear from calls these days has to do with internal, with the idea that you have different generations, with different understandings and expectations of the nature of work and their relationship with their employer, different work styles, grew up with different familiarity with technology.
00:18:06:20 - 00:18:27:03
Eliot
And so I think with that breadth of generational difference in the workforce all at once, the idea of building, you know, singular and cohesive culture becomes more difficult because you have people with very different worldviews, their mindsets. And so what I hear kids talk very often about is how do we bridge those divides internally across the employee base?
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Eliot
And so I think that's a really important factor, especially as technology starts to disrupt so much of the work that we do and how we do it. And that doesn't assume that older generations wouldn't be able to keep up. In fact, you know, a lot of people from older than generations are quicker adoption adopters than younger people are, and they have more of a perspective to be thoughtful about the implications of these kinds of things.
00:18:49:13 - 00:18:59:05
Eliot
So I think trying to understand internally how you engage the entire workforce across generations is a really important issue for kids today.
00:18:59:07 - 00:19:16:23
Steve
So, Rob, what is what does the research say? I mean, when I saw you present this first I was was really struck by the differences that you saw, particularly between Gen Z and boomers. But but what are some of the top takeaways when you start slicing it by, generational lens?
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Rob
Yeah. I mean, I think the reason why right now, that generational divide, between Gen Z and boomers is so important is that in more and more markets, you're seeing kind of an equilibrium for those two groups in the workforce, right? So in like not all countries yet, but in many countries in the US and a bunch of Western European countries, you have somewhere around a quarter of the of the active work workforce is now Gen Z, which is that's kind of like a new trend as of the last six months.
00:19:45:14 - 00:20:02:11
Rob
So that makes it very noteworthy. Right? Because before it would have been just a couple voices saying, hey, I expect this and this. And people like, well, it's kind of like there's not very many people now. It's now it's a really substantial part of the, of the population, right. Where it's you're, you're probably at something like, you know, 25% is Gen Z, 25% is Boomer.
00:20:02:13 - 00:20:23:02
Rob
Right. And there's a big divide there. So there's, you know, as, as an example like three of the big issues when you're when you're looking at the younger generation are as we said, mental health is number two really high expectation. It's also number three with millennials. So younger trend. But then with Gen Z you also have gender equality and racial minority equality globally right across the 14 countries that that pop.
00:20:23:02 - 00:20:41:14
Rob
It's just a it's a different kind of issue spectrum. That's relevant to them. Versus if you're looking at boomers, they really, really narrow in on those top three issues. Right? So again, economics jobs and skills and corruption. Right. There are the big three that are that are real kind of like standards.
00:20:41:16 - 00:21:06:04
Eliot
So well I might just add there's the you know, it sort of goes to the point about the economy like value that business creates that. And this is just me kind of speculating based on the result. Older generations, you know, their relationship with work is maybe more economic in nature. I provide economic value to this organization, and it provides economic value to me in the in the form of compensation.
00:21:06:06 - 00:21:38:10
Eliot
Younger generations view their relationship with work more like a third place. You know that this is a place where I belong, where, you know, I'm I'm working towards creating an inclusive environment. Issues like mental health and well-being are more germane to the work experience for for those people than they might be for older generations. So I think Rob's point is really well-taken that the even in in the similarities across generation, there are some lessons, about how those generations think differently.
00:21:38:12 - 00:22:10:10
Steve
So with all those generations in the workforce that you're trying to keep happy and productive, I mean, what what are some tips? I mean, you know, different generations want different messages based on what we're seeing. Different generations want that message to be delivered in a different way. What are what are what are some tips or takeaways or or what have you heard from CEOs that that have been fairly successful in helping build a fairly cohesive, culture across the generations?
00:22:10:12 - 00:22:37:17
Eliot
A few things come to mind. One is, I think that this kind of goes to the building of an inclusive culture. I think open form formats for communication are really employment opportunities for employees not only to express their ideas or concerns or beliefs to management, but also for employees to hear that from each other and foster a greater understanding across generations, I think is really important.
00:22:37:19 - 00:23:04:01
Eliot
And that's true not just of generational issues. I think that's true. True more broadly. I think another thing would be, we have more of an ability now through technology and com tech to, customized, tailored messages. And while I'm absolutely not saying that companies ought to be saying one thing to one group and another thing to another group, I think you have to be saying the same thing.
00:23:04:03 - 00:23:33:21
Eliot
Your message should be the same. But you might frame it or express it in different ways for different organizations, or emphasize different elements of it in ways that again, meet those people where they are. And so I think segmentation targeting, optimization through iteration, those kinds of things are all tools in the toolbox to understand those different stakeholder groups, understand what their beliefs and behaviors might be, and to tailor messaging to them accordingly so that it feels as relevant to them as possible.
00:23:33:23 - 00:23:45:00
Steve
Rob, anything else in the data as we think about kind of the, cross generational engagement that, that's going to be important for our listeners to understand.
00:23:45:02 - 00:24:03:07
Rob
I mean, I'll just pull on some additional threads that that we pretty consistently see, just building on what Elliot was saying, I think right now, trying to, not trying to like humanizing your company and really humanizing your leadership is more important than ever, because it's really it's very easy to get stuck into like, kind of like pure channels and technology and things like that.
00:24:03:07 - 00:24:25:13
Rob
Right? Where it do in terms of the humanization, need to use the technology a lot better to, to, to be clear. But, I think one of the especially as, as you're looking at internal audiences, being able to relate these issues to things like culture and really into kind of understanding, driving both strategy and kind of career development is is essentially important, right?
00:24:25:13 - 00:24:42:09
Rob
And really being able to meet people where they are. Right? I mean, there's, you know, there's every company we work for has such a diversity of different talent, right? If you're if you're working for like an airline or if you're working in auto or if you're working in manufacturing, right. You have a lot of different people that play different roles in different settings, right?
00:24:42:09 - 00:24:59:04
Rob
So you have to really figure out how to how to bring that to life the right way. And I don't know if it's it's not like saying different things to different people. Like our it's not like trying to hide something. It's saying, you know, really relating to a the culture of the company, the values of the company, but bringing it to life through kind of strategy, jobs to get done.
00:24:59:06 - 00:25:19:02
Rob
I mean, I think right now a lot of people's heads are very, very practical as well. Right. Like there and we we see this very consistently. People see like home lives, like people are quote unquote more conservative. But that's because they're financially feeling insecure. Right? So like people aren't feeling like politically more conservative. They're feeling that, you know, again, they're feeling very practical.
00:25:19:03 - 00:25:35:04
Rob
I have to make decisions for for myself, for my family. Like if I'm doing a job, I want to understand why I'm doing this job. But frame it in a way that's, like meaningful and impactful to me. Right. But, you know, we're in practical times versus kind of like, you know, esoteric, aspirational times. I would say.
00:25:35:06 - 00:25:54:12
Steve
Yeah, I think, I think, I think everything you guys are saying is, is key because it really hits the idea that one size can't fit all. But to your point, Elliot, you still need to be telling the same story, the same narrative, which which leads to where I kind of like to pivot a little bit. Okay. So we've identified we've identified there's a there's a lot of commonalities.
00:25:54:12 - 00:26:20:15
Steve
We've identified. There's a lot of gaps. And one of the things Rob, I thought was really interesting when I first saw you present this information, was really kind of talking about the confidence curve and just the difference that you have in terms of impact that you're able to make by the ability to put together action and context. Can you can you talk about that a little bit and, and set that up for us?
00:26:20:17 - 00:26:40:21
Rob
Yeah, I think the you know, we're hoping that the confidence curve is a very useful tool for communicators. Right. So again we're looking at 14 countries. We're looking at 16 issues. One of the things we also asked about is how and what. To what degree are you hearing from leading companies on each one of these things? When you and there's four kind of four tiers, if you will.
00:26:40:21 - 00:26:57:12
Rob
The first is I'm not hearing much from the company. I don't really know what they're doing. The second is I'm seeing company action, but I'm not really, really I don't really understand what or why they're doing. You know, I'm hearing company perspectives, but I don't really see any action. And the third is I'm seeing both action and clear explanation for clear context.
00:26:57:14 - 00:27:29:21
Rob
Right. And those for when you combine them with the level of confidence in aggregate across all markets, across all those issues. What you very quickly see is that if people don't see any action or any perspective, like confidence is going to be abysmally low, much lower than that, than the global average, it gets ever so modestly higher, but very niche impact if you're seeing action very similar, if you're only seeing perspectives, right, people just talking about an issue, versus once you actually get both of those combined together confidence across issues.
00:27:29:21 - 00:27:48:08
Rob
And it's a 1 to 1 on every issue. Right. Springs to like majority impact. Right. So you're moving from confidence being in the 1520 range to over 50%. Right. So you're moving to majority confidence. And it's pretty intuitive if you're working in communications that that should be true. It's just that is not the reality that most people are seeing.
00:27:48:10 - 00:28:07:06
Rob
Right. Like so the it's action plus context equals confidence. Right. And think of confidence as a good kind of short to medium term goal versus just things like trust and reputation. Right. What I'm trying to do is establish confidence on this very specific thing, versus saying that we are the leader in some sort of a grandiose, aspirational fashion.
00:28:07:06 - 00:28:30:21
Rob
We're just trying to move the needle a little bit forward. And again, we'll get to the implications. Right. But you really need to be able to narrow your focus in order to do that. Right? Like a press release or a social post is not going to be your winning ticket here, right? You really need to reprioritize and think about, like, how do I really tell the story in a dynamic omnichannel fashion, and how do I reinforce it right?
00:28:31:03 - 00:28:39:06
Rob
And how do I ensure there are very clear examples and actions that we are taking that are backing up whatever we're saying?
00:28:39:08 - 00:29:00:15
Steve
So. So, Elliot, when you think about the role of the CTO and how that's evolved, you know, we've always traditionally tried to create the context, tell the story. What is it about what what is what is going on? How should you think about it? How should you frame it? How can the CTO then really help drive that companion part of action?
00:29:00:15 - 00:29:09:06
Steve
What do they need to do with their fellow C-suite, officers to really be able to marry those two together?
00:29:09:07 - 00:29:43:07
Eliot
Yeah. I'm glad that you acknowledged that. This is familiar territory for communicators. You know, there's explaining the confidence and the context as a means of explaining the action is something that communicators are adept at. And I think certainly one of the things that schools ought to be doing is making the case for that. But to your point, one of the things that we're seeing in co leadership is that the Co, role is diversifying in some cases is expanding to include areas like public affairs brand marketing sustainability.
00:29:43:09 - 00:30:16:18
Eliot
But even in instances where the remit isn't growing the sphere of influence is. And what that requires is schools who are working cross-functional to enact the mission, the vision, the purpose, and oftentimes, you know, decisions on the issues that that robust research tests are guided to some extent on purpose and values and, yes, materiality. You know, whether there's, you know, the business has a material relationship to the issue or whether the issue has a mature relationship to the business.
00:30:16:19 - 00:30:47:18
Eliot
And so I think a big part of co leadership on these issues is, unearthing that materiality and working cross-functionally to make sure that the organizations actions, whether they decide to take one or not, are consistent with values, purpose. The CCL, more than anybody in the C-suite, has that broad purview. It's one of the reasons why we see CEOs increasingly taking on responsibilities that benefit from a broader stakeholder lens.
00:30:47:23 - 00:31:20:05
Eliot
Right. More CEOs involved in HR because employees are important stakeholder group, more in ESG and sustainability. So I think critically important is for Coes to identify the the partnerships and the coalitions within the C-suite that they need to build in order to make sure that the action matches the context, because ultimately, the what the confidence curve shows is if if there's connectivity between what you're doing and how you're describing it, that instills confidence.
00:31:20:07 - 00:31:23:16
Eliot
And if there's not, that's where you get into trouble.
00:31:23:18 - 00:31:50:06
Steve
Yeah. And I thought it was interesting. You know, the formula seems like it should be pretty simple. Action in context means you're going to be up over 50%. But when you look at the data globally, I mean, what did it net out to about 2,020%. So it seems like there's there's a lot of opportunity. What what do you think are the are the barriers to that to the to the confidence gap that we're really talking about.
00:31:50:08 - 00:32:06:23
Rob
Prioritization and consistency. So that's like the a prioritization like being able to say these are these are the these are the core pillars of what we're going to focus on like and spend whatever it is 75% of your time. Like, yeah, there's a lot of other stuff you need to do. But that should take like 20 to 20% of your time, right?
00:32:06:23 - 00:32:26:15
Rob
So prioritization and getting buy in from your leadership team on prioritization is essentially important. And then consistency. Right. It's kind of like, you know, again, I mean I think everybody knows this when I say it out loud, but if you're doing something on social, it has gone like this. Right? So social is one of the most relevant high impact sets of channels.
00:32:26:17 - 00:32:42:17
Rob
But at the same time, like that's not going to be your silver bullet. Doing three posts on social is not going to get it's not going to break through. Like just putting up a landing page is not going to get through. Just building it into your into a one like executive speaking engagement is not going to break through, just building it into kind of one piece of paid content or advertising.
00:32:42:17 - 00:32:48:20
Rob
It's not going to break through. You really need to think in a much more holistic fashion, and you need to have like a consistent drumbeat.
00:32:48:22 - 00:33:09:08
Steve
So, so, Elliot, with all this great data. And so when you when you think about all the research that you guys did, all the conversation, what's your advice to close agency leaders, senior comms. How do they use this research. What are they what what should they what should they do next.
00:33:09:10 - 00:33:34:23
Eliot
Well, one of the things they should do next is something that I know many CSOs are doing now, which is develop a methodology or a framework for determining whether and how to engage on the issues that are relevant to the organization and the approaches that I seek is taking can range from, really simple, you know, just a series of very basic questions.
00:33:35:00 - 00:34:01:02
Eliot
How does this issue relate to our values? What is our history on this issue? What do employees think about this issue, to the very sophisticated where companies are collecting data, you know, doing essentially internal and external research in order to inform choices about issues where there's an opportunity for the organization to have a positive impact and where that would be welcomed and issues where maybe it's wiser not to.
00:34:01:04 - 00:34:26:10
Eliot
And that's not to say that there are issues where companies can't or won't have a positive benefit. But to Rob's point, prioritization is really important, which are the issues that matter most to your organization, and how are you going to marshal the resources, the attention, the commitment that it requires to have a real, meaningful impact? You know, if you're spread too thin across issues, it can't help but feel superficial.
00:34:26:12 - 00:34:46:02
Eliot
But when there are specific issues that as an organization, you've determined these are things that are material to our business, they're material to our stakeholders, and there's an opportunity for us to have a positive impact. And by the way, have an impact that that contributes to our ability to be a stronger, more vibrant business. I think those that's a really compelling argument.
00:34:46:04 - 00:35:06:06
Steve
Yeah. And I think I think we've really seen kind of a mature maturation within, the comms profession of how do you address that dilemma of action and context for, for a little bit, it felt like a pinball machine, like we all have to respond to everything or have opinions on everything everywhere and try and put it in context.
00:35:06:06 - 00:35:32:21
Steve
But I think that's the point where you started with Elliot, where you were saying it comes across a little bit disingenuous if it's not really what is that core focus that we want? What gives us that license to have that conversation, I think is, is really, really important, particularly as easy as it is to be seen as taking sides and, and with, with, with different framework going on with politics.
00:35:32:21 - 00:35:55:07
Steve
And, you know, one of the things that I thought was a really interesting statement at, the page Spring seminar a few weeks ago was when we were talking about engagement one of the speakers made the comment said, add light, not heat, which I thought was, was it was a really interesting, comment because again, when you think about light, add heat as add context.
00:35:55:07 - 00:36:19:19
Steve
Sure. What we're doing from action wise, but that also means don't get caught up in like the tit for tat or some of those, those other things. I mean, I wasn't sure. Did you guys have any kind of, either here with, with your CSO interviews or any recent discussions, anything really stand out for you guys that somebody said in context of the research or the current, landscape that we're at?
00:36:20:00 - 00:36:43:09
Rob
I mean, one of my favorites in terms of application of a lot of this, right, is, talking with Co who's also, a CMO. She works in the semiconductor space, and she's, she's had both those roles in different kind of variations for, for a long time. And one of the things she kind of emphasized, which I think it makes, a lot of sense and how it's applied makes a ton of sense, right?
00:36:43:09 - 00:37:01:15
Rob
Is focus on things like brand at more of like a macro regional or global level, and then really focus your comms at much more of a localized level. Right. I think that's like so it's, you know, you want to have consistency in priorities. Like if you, if you if you're responsible for brand, you want to have some big ticket items that roll up together.
00:37:01:17 - 00:37:17:21
Rob
But as you're bringing it to life on the ground, especially for a global company like your communications dynamic is the essential thing for for for bringing it to life, right? That's where, again, what you want to have is like big global examples, right? And but you also want to bring it to life in a very, very local context.
00:37:17:21 - 00:37:35:01
Rob
So I really like that because there's I think I've seen a lot of companies try and do the brand thing, like on the ground, and it looks a little bit crazy, right? It's basically just kind of like, you know, a lot of activity and not very clear as to why it's happening. And it's kind of all this like funny language and positioning and things like this.
00:37:35:03 - 00:37:53:17
Rob
Right. Versus being able to kind of pause and stop for a second and say, no, these are kind of our big fundamentals. We're just going to focus those assets there. And then on for the communication side, really bring you being able to kind of bring much more context and much more specific action on the ground. So acting off both a lot of consistency, but bringing it to that local level.
00:37:53:17 - 00:38:07:12
Rob
And I think communications is very well suited to do that in a lot of kind of the assets and channels that that are typically communications are much, much better attuned to it. Right? It's much more organic in nature versus kind of like paid and promotional in nature, if you will.
00:38:07:14 - 00:38:12:13
Steve
Right? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Eliot, how about you?
00:38:12:15 - 00:38:33:19
Eliot
Well, I, I love the light, not heat one. I think there's there's so much richness in that lesson. Another one that stuck out to me was, focus on policy, not politics. And just as it relates to this conversation, I think it's fair to acknowledge that neutrality is a position like no position is a position today.
00:38:33:21 - 00:39:03:04
Eliot
And even where there are issues where organizations might choose not to engage on a particular issue, there will be stakeholders of one shape or another who are disappointed by that. And so I think even providing the context, the explanation as to why the organization has chosen not to engage on a particular issue is important. And one of the ways that that you can sort of steer clear, I mean, there's all these culture war issues, and companies understandably don't want to get caught up in any of that.
00:39:03:06 - 00:39:29:09
Eliot
But their focus is on policy and not politics, right? It is about the choices that the business is making and how those choices have an impact on society. And so I think whatever companies can do to explain, to reinforce the idea that what we're interested in is policy that works and not the politics. And the more you steer, you know, your message and your position into politics, the more risk there is.
00:39:29:11 - 00:39:51:23
Steve
Yeah, that I think that's that's really good advice. And and you know, as I think about all the research that you guys did, speaking of richness, a lot of richness in here. And I could I could talk for hours and go deep on all this, but, but we're getting near the end. So I wanted to ask each of you, just any final thoughts or advice that you have?
00:39:52:04 - 00:40:09:04
Steve
For the CEOs, the senior agency leaders and even even, younger professionals that are listening to this, either based on the research or just in general. Any final thoughts you have about the global state of confidence in business?
00:40:09:06 - 00:40:29:21
Rob
So as as with all things, right, the whole idea, whenever you're doing research with external constituencies or external stakeholders, you need to match it with like an internal reality. Right? So, we're really proud of this work with, with page. And I think our favorite part of it is the fact that it's turning into a lot of page conversations, like market by market, because that's where the real kind of rubber hits the road, if you will.
00:40:29:22 - 00:40:50:14
Rob
Right? So if anything, the research kind of beckons. It kind of challenges you to think about certain priorities and context of your business. And, and it it kind of behooves us to kind of think about those questions and how they fit into our strategy. Right? So I think that's the like this is a good starting point for a conversation versus saying, this is this is the answer of what you need to do tomorrow.
00:40:50:14 - 00:41:11:04
Rob
I think there's a lot of key principles that are baked in here. But it's a it's a really good starting point. I think the most important part of it is, it's a it's a great kind of, you know, page global conversation, which I, you know, I really enjoy. There's so many dynamic people across the globe. So whether you're talking about the Middle East or Asia Pacific or Europe or Latin America or the US or Canada, right.
00:41:11:04 - 00:41:13:15
Rob
So.
00:41:13:17 - 00:41:51:18
Eliot
I think what I would add to that, which covers mostly everything I was thinking is, I think there would be there is an understandable tendency of organizations today to want some retreat from some issues for fear of the risk of engaging on them. I would I would counsel prudence over disengagement. There is still, and I think the research shows this, you know, even though they weren't top ranked issues, there are significant groups of people who care about a variety of issues that businesses have an opportunity to impact.
00:41:51:20 - 00:42:16:12
Eliot
And while I, I think it's probably a poor choice for organizations to try to be all things on all issues to all people, I do think that the issues on which organizations decide to engage and the manner of engagement and the level of commitment that they demonstrate to that issue over the long term, right. Not wavering. I think those things do serve to build trust.
00:42:16:14 - 00:42:49:08
Eliot
And I would argue they build trust even among those who disagree with the organization. You know, you hear from time to time there's a boycott over this or a boycott over that. And those things Peter, out over time. And I think it's because, you know, as human beings, we can we're still capable of disagreeing without disengaging. And so I would argue that prudence and following research like what what Harris has done with page here, I think helps to form a, you know, a stronger opinion about which issues are the ones that we can really have a positive impact on, which ones are going to affect confidence.
00:42:49:10 - 00:42:55:20
Eliot
And as a CCL, how am I going to counsel R.C. Sweden? Which opportunities are the ones we should pursue and which ones aren't.
00:42:55:22 - 00:42:56:11
Rob
Yeah.
00:42:56:13 - 00:43:17:00
Steve
Yeah. And and you know, as I think about a lot and a lot of this and just all the change that that we're dealing with and it's easy to get caught up. I say day to day hour to our second to second pretty much. But you know, it really is coming down to a lot of those core principles of having a clear strategy, knowing what you stand for, when and where you want to engage.
00:43:17:02 - 00:43:45:13
Steve
And then really demonstrate what that action in context is. And I think the research is really, really rich looking at the perspectives across, different geographies, looking across different generations. So I would encourage all of our listeners to go check that out. If you go to page.org to the blog section, you will find, the latest research, building Public Confidence six Essential issues for business leadership.
00:43:45:13 - 00:44:08:19
Steve
It's, really exciting stuff. I'd recommend you share it with your team and with your C-suite. So, Rob Elliot, thank you, as always, for being, friends of the pod. Excited to have you back and honored to have you back again this year, sharing your research after you, unveiled it at Davos. And I'd like to invite everybody listening to make sure you follow Elliot and Rob.
00:44:08:21 - 00:44:26:03
Steve
We'll put their LinkedIn information and the trailer here. So they're full of deep thoughts, insights on, on the industry. So guys, thank you so much for for joining us today. And for our listeners, thank you so much for joining, building brand gravity. Check back soon for our next issue.
